Olivia Maurel: Surrogacy Should Be Banned, Not Regulated

Since then, she has devoted herself to campaigning against surrogacy. She says she is not angry with her parents but cannot accept that society tolerates the practice. Today, she is a spokesperson for the Casablanca Declaration, an initiative calling for a ban on what it describes as child trafficking and the renting of women’s bodies.

Surrogacy is not a very common term in Slovakia. What is your experience with surrogacy in Slovakia? Or in our region?

In general, I don't know much about surrogacy in Slovakia. But if I were to compare it to other countries such as Croatia or the Czech Republic, with which I have more experience, then it is similar. When you talk to ordinary people on the street, they usually don't know what it's about or don't have an opinion on it.

I consider talking to these people and educating them to be an important part of my work. After all, many French people don't know how surrogacy works either.

So it's about prevention...

Exactly. It's all about prevention. After all, it's ordinary people who will decide on the president (or the government) in the next elections.

These are the people we need to convince that surrogacy is not a good thing. And make that clear to them.

What do you think is the worst thing about surrogacy? We often hear that it's child trafficking, but it's also about the women who are involved in this system. You present yourself as a feminist. What is the main force that drives you? Apart from your traumatic personal experience, of course.

There are two things I am fighting against in surrogacy.

I am fighting for the children because they should not be separated from their mothers. Not even if they are not genetically related to them [gestational surrogacy, editor's note].

A child who lives through its mother for nine months builds a unique relationship with her. And by separating it from her, we cause these children trauma in the first seconds of their lives.

I always say that we don't even separate kittens and puppies from their mothers after birth.

We don't even touch them...

Precisely because we know that the mother would reject them. And if we know that animals suffer psychological damage from separation, why do we believe that this is not the case with surrogacy?

That is the first reason why I am against it. However, there is another problematic area that affects children. We are forcibly taking away their fundamental rights. And we are lying to them.

We all have the right to know our origins. This is stated in the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was adopted by the UN decades ago. However, the practices of surrogacy deprive children of this right. They are not allowed to learn about their roots [due to contracts, this is decided by the clients, who are almost always listed on the child's birth certificate, editor's note].

Does that have negative consequences?

Not all cases are like mine. I am sure that there are happy children and that there will continue to be happy children. But that is not an argument.

It does not matter whether some of the children will lead happy lives if we separate them all from their rights in the first seconds of their lives, as well as from their mothers, whom they have known their entire short lives. We should not allow that.

What is your second motivation?

It's the women. We use their bodies as reproductive vessels for the rich.

I have seen the wording of the contracts they sign with clinics and clients. Some parts are very difficult to read... For example, those about forced abortions.

Yes, there was a recent case where a mother in her third trimester had to have an abortion because an ultrasound revealed that the child was missing two fingers.

The contracts contain abortion clauses that give the commissioning parents the right to decide whether or not the mother has an abortion.

And people are shocked when they are shown how the whole mechanism works.

Would the woman still have to have an abortion even if she said she wanted to keep the child herself?

Yes, she would. She cannot keep the child. This is because the contract transfers parental rights to the commissioning parents from the outset. There is a clause in which she declares that she renounces the child, and after signing the contract, it no longer belongs to her.

In this case, is there a difference between gestational and traditional [the woman who carries the child is genetically related to it, editor's note] surrogacy?

There is no difference. It doesn't matter at all.

To get back to the story: the woman initially refused to have an abortion. She was prepared to keep the child. But then she had to deal with the clients' lawyers, who told her that according to the contract, she would receive nothing if she did not have an abortion. So she was forced to have an abortion.

I don't know how this woman feels today, but I'm sure it must have destroyed her.

And what's really cruel is that once the contract expires, no one cares about the surrogate mothers anymore. They are left to fend for themselves... They may have psychological problems, health problems. And no one cares.

Why do these mothers do it? In the past, you have said several times that many of them do it because they are in financial need, but on Instagram we often see women who have already given birth to several children for the applicants with smiles on their faces. And they all look like modern, happy families. What is your experience of reality?

My experience is that Instagram is not real. It's not real life. Just take traditional couples who look beautiful and happy on Instagram but get divorced two weeks after the wedding... Today, we simply know that content on social media is misleading and artificial.

And yes, there are also women who have five children and want to become surrogate mothers, but we never know the real reason why they decided to do so. Maybe they have to stay at home with those five children and have no other way to provide them with everything they need...

It was actually similar with my biological mother. Before I was born, she was mourning her two-and-a-half-year-old son who had died at home, so she considered becoming a surrogate mother.

I don't understand. Why become a surrogate mother?

The whole thing was very unfortunate. When her son, my stepbrother, died, she had four other children at home. She couldn't recover from it for a long time. She grieved and suffered from depression. She couldn't find a job...

And so she found a solution in surrogacy. That way, she could provide for her four remaining children. That's the reality that my step-siblings described to me in detail.

However, when I asked my mother about it, she told me that she did it because God had taken her child away from her. And she had to make amends to society for that.

That sounds like something out of a magazine.

It was simply her way of dealing with the trauma. That's normal; even Freud dealt with it. People try in different ways to explain pain and bad events in order to process them more quickly and end their suffering.

Is there anything positive about surrogacy? Can you find anything good in it?

No. There is nothing good about surrogacy.

How do proponents of surrogacy react when you present your arguments against it? What are their arguments?

That the child will be loved either way. And that it doesn't matter how it is born. The child will always be happy.

That's a really stupid argument, because you can't know in advance what this child's life will be like and what effect it will have on their psyche. We haven't studied this and have no idea what the separation from the mother might do.

Their second major argument is that surrogate mothers agree to this in advance. That's true, but I don't know if you can call it voluntary when money is involved. A lot of money.

Furthermore, I don't believe you can freely decide in advance on something you've never experienced before. A surrogate mother signs a paper without knowing what it will mean. She doesn't know how attached she will be to the child and whether the separation will cause her health problems.

Mothers have to take a lot of medication and hormones to successfully get pregnant and have children. These are not natural pregnancies. And so far, the medium- to long-term effects of all these substances on them have not been thoroughly investigated. We don't know.

What are the individual religions' positions on surrogacy? The official position of Rome is clear for Catholics, but what about other faiths?

Even among Catholics, the position was not unanimous before Pope Francis took a clear stance a year ago.

That was actually the main reason why I wrote him a letter in December 2023. When I heard a laudatory interview on the Spanish Bishops' Conference radio station with the actress (Ana Obregón, now 70), who had a child carried by a surrogate mother using her son's sperm, I was unpleasantly surprised. And even more so when I saw how positively some Catholics reacted to it... I told myself that they must be against it.

And in the US, it's very different from Europe. Some people there believe that being pro-life means being pro-surrogacy.

And what about other world religions?

Muslims are relatively fundamental and consistent in their opposition to surrogacy.

Among Jews, it varies, similar to Christians. In Israel, surrogacy is quite common. I would even say that they tend to be in favor of it.

However, we have allies everywhere, which I am very happy about. It is one of the few issues on which Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, and feminists can agree and work together.

Yes, that's right. In the past, you have even said that you don't want to comment on other social issues such as artificial insemination so as not to lose allies.

Yes, if I strayed from the topic of surrogacy, I would probably lose half of the people I work with. If someone in our really large working group within the Casablanca Declaration initiative (for a global ban on surrogacy) were to raise another issue, such as gender identity, it could complicate our joint campaign or even bring it to a standstill. That's why we stick strictly to this issue, and everyone is free to have their own opinion on other issues.

The entire “market” for children and surrogate mothers is expected to grow rapidly. Today, it is worth around $28 billion, and in ten years' time, it is expected to be almost ten times that amount. What do you think is the main driver?

I think there are many factors behind this, but as in any market, marketing has a big influence on surrogacy.

So it's mainly about clinics and people who earn a lot of money thanks to this system?

It's not just about clinics. It's about the entire market. If you want to buy a child in Africa, you have to pay for lawyers, a fertility clinic, doctors, embryos, a hotel, airline tickets, and a travel agency. So it's an entire economic ecosystem with many players.

Doesn't this “tourism” contribute to economic growth in developing countries? Is that why politicians there have no problem taking action against surrogacy?

Not really. In developing countries, there is a tendency to want to ban this business. Because it is their poor women who are systematically endangered by it.

Really? Even if it is a solid business that brings capital into the country?

Yes. Chile, for example, is currently working hard to ban surrogacy because it wants to protect its women. The elites there know that once the surrogacy lobby establishes itself in the country, it will be over. All the poor women on the streets will become living incubators for rich people from Western countries.

That's exactly what's happening in Mexico right now. And the cartels have taken control of the business. They no longer just sell drugs and weapons on a large scale, but also children. This just shows how dangerous, but at the same time lucrative and profitable, this business is.

Where is surrogacy most widespread today? Where are the clinics concentrated, and where do the surrogate mothers usually come from?

Many clinics are located in Ukraine.

Despite the war?

Yes. Even after the outbreak of war, many children are still being born there in this way.

Even though Ukrainians have an enormous demographic problem, which has been exacerbated by the war?

Yes, because compared to other countries, it is still very cheap there.

And then there is America as a huge center. It's slightly different in each state, but in most of them, surrogacy is legal. It's one of the best places to go if you want to buy a child.

Currently, so-called hybrid programs are in vogue. These are clearly human trafficking.

There is an entrepreneur in Las Vegas who has built his business on this principle. It works like this: you come to the US with a certain budget. If you can't afford a woman in the US to carry the child, the clinic brings a Mexican woman to the US, implants an embryo in her, and sends her back to Mexico. When the due date approaches, she is brought to the United States to give birth and then transported back to her home country.

That is literally human trafficking.

Don't they have any problems crossing the border?

They have no problems at all.

How does the legal process work after the children are born? They were issued a birth certificate that...

Sealed. Yes, in the past, a birth certificate was issued listing the mother who gave birth to the child. This was sealed and a new one was issued listing the commissioning parents.

Today, it is much simpler, as there is a so-called prenatal decision within the framework of the contract. This essentially guarantees the commissioning parents that they will automatically receive a birth certificate with their names on it when the child is born. A fake birth certificate.

However, it still happens that a birth certificate is issued for children listing the surrogate mother, and this is then sealed.

And citizenship?

That depends on the laws of the country where the child is born. In the United States, for example, a child born on its territory automatically receives American citizenship.

That is one of the reasons why Chinese people hire surrogate mothers in the US, even though they have no problem having children. They want to secure a better future for them with American citizenship.

In the past, you have said that you are not angry with your parents, but with the fact that our society allows surrogacy. In my opinion, the boom in surrogacy is a kind of negative by-product of capitalism and the classic concept that you can achieve anything with hard work... even buying a child. Can the fight against surrogacy be won without changing this attitude? As long as there is demand from people who desperately want children and cannot have them, do you think you can win your fight?

Of course. People's demand for children will always exist. That's only natural. So that's not an argument.

We can look back at slavery in the past. In America, there has always been a huge demand for unpaid labor from the Global South. It was a huge business. And although many fought to keep slavery, they lost.

Of course we can stop it, even if there will be demand from people who believe they can buy anything.

If surrogacy is banned worldwide, won't the illegal market flourish?

That's possible, it happens. I'll come back to slavery. It's banned, but there are still about 50 million slaves in the world. But that's no reason to allow slavery.

Isn't it better to strictly regulate surrogacy than to ban it completely?

Is it better to regulate the sale of organs than to ban it? There are still people in the world who live in slavery. Does that mean we should return to slavery and regulate it?

If it is an unethical practice, we cannot seek to regulate it. It must be prohibited.

Do you believe that some form of global consensus on the prohibition of surrogacy can be achieved?

Yes, I believe so. We recently achieved a major success at the United Nations.

The report by UN Special Rapporteur Reem Alsalem...

Exactly. That's a big deal. Because it's no longer just us, but also the voice of the UN saying that surrogacy is a bad thing and we need to ban it across the board.

These are small steps. There is still no consensus at the international level. There are more countries that explicitly ban surrogacy or refuse to allow it or enshrine it in law—such as Slovakia, for example. However, there are also countries where it is being legalized.

We are currently in a phase where we can influence how countries that have not yet regulated surrogacy approach this issue. These include Slovakia, Croatia, and the Czech Republic, for example.

An excellent example of what we want to achieve is Albania, which recently wanted to pass a law that would have allowed surrogacy. However, after I visited the country and shared my experiences, the law was rejected.

And what is the general trend?

That depends on your perspective, but I believe things are improving. For example, we are seeing courts in many countries ruling in our favor in individual cases. And that then influences political decisions.

Italy, for example, tightened its legislation last year, which had already banned this practice in the country. Under the new regulations, Italians are prohibited from traveling abroad to purchase children carried by surrogate mothers. They face two years in prison and a fine of up to one million euros.

From this point of view, things are moving in the right direction. On the other hand, it is very difficult to ban and eradicate the market for surrogacy once it has become established in a country...

Which countries have the highest demand?

European countries.

So not America?

No, Europe.

I assume from Western Europe...

Yes, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark... pretty much everywhere.

But, for example, altruistic surrogacy [where the mother is not paid to carry the child, but usually only has her medical expenses covered, editor's note], but there are so few surrogate mothers there that British agencies are opening branches in Mexico so that English people can travel there and hire a woman for less money.

That sums up your famous saying. That you've never seen a rich woman...

Carry a child for a poor woman. Yes, exactly. Never.

You came to Slovakia because of your book, in which you tell your story. But that story continues. Did you enjoy writing? Do you plan to continue writing?

At the moment, I have two ideas in mind.

I would like to compile statements and personal experiences from children who are the product of surrogacy, as well as from surrogate mothers who have been worn down by this business.

The second thing that appeals to me is writing something like a diary. Because in the last two years, I have experienced countless events, met many people, and gained a lot of experience.

Sometimes I can't believe that some things really happened. I have documented everything, write down important things every day, and maybe I will publish it all in a book one day.